Crossovers - The New Vans? Or not?

I remember hearing once that there is nothing more damaging or divisive than labels. As car/van/truck/crossover nuts, we all share one thing in common. A love of driving, the feeling that you were born with gasoline (or diesel) pumping through our veins. It is the feeling of freedom you got when you first got your liscence. I liken my love for all things automotive to feeling like you always have an escape hatch from the stresses of life, the day and people. Not too wax too poetic here, but does it matter if a van has a slider or barn doors. Those HHR photos are sweet. And I have no idea how to label that vehicle. A piece of solidly american design? A definite source of owner passion, that is evident. Kind of van like, kind of truck-like but built on a car chassis? A Cran? There we go. We all drive Crans.

Van, Truck, SUV or Convertible we are all here because of passion.  

Balboa455:
I remember hearing once that there is nothing more damaging or divisive than labels. As car/van/truck/crossover nuts, we all share one thing in common. A love of driving, the feeling that you were born with gasoline (or diesel) pumping through our veins. It is the feeling of freedom you got when you first got your liscence. I liken my love for all things automotive to feeling like you always have an escape hatch from the stresses of life, the day and people. Not too wax too poetic here, but does it matter if a van has a slider or barn doors. Those HHR photos are sweet. And I have no idea how to label that vehicle. A piece of solidly american design? A definite source of owner passion, that is evident. Kind of van like, kind of truck-like but built on a car chassis? A Cran? There we go. We all drive Crans.

Van, Truck, SUV or Convertible we are all here because of passion.

CRAN Bwuuhahahaha!  I like that one!  You forgot to incorporate trucks, motorcyles, planes and boats into that one.

You are sooooo right about the LABEL thing. There are som eVANts that are open to Vans, Panels and Trucks. When van clubs first started to allow trucks into the show we used a term "V.A.T.T." (Vans and Trucks Together) There was even a run in Virginia Called VATT Jam.

What Mike is talking about is a "Vans Only" eVANt. There are many mid-west clubs that put on eVANts that are for Vans and Panels ONLY. Panels being the predicessor to the van. At these eVANts you must have a Van or Panel to enter the run.

The Nationals is the U.S. Premier "VAN" eVANt. It is open to vans and panels only. There is a Nationals board and they descide on which vehicles are considered to be a van and/or panel. Their decision is what is used as a guidline for the club or clubs hosting the Nationals for that year.

In the past some of the Hosts have allowed Van club members who for one reason or another, no longer own a van or have one that will make a long trip, to enter the eVANt with a truck pulling a camper. They were allowed to drop the camper with the rest of their VAN club and then put their trucks outside the gate.

Most vanners had no problem with this (I personally asked several) although some vanners had problems with it. As the saying goes, you can't please everyone.

Vanning is a little more than what we drive. Over the past 30 some years we have created a lifestyle. We vanners love our vans, but we have a bond for each other that will surpass whatever we drive.  

Who knows? Interestingly, I've found a lot of the van guys that actually like the HHR and PT Cruiser, even though they're clearly not vans. I personally don't even drive a truck, but I can appreciate the workmanship and originality in the custom trucks I see.

I personally think vans are cool, and don't get why so many people have to dog on them, and think they're just owned and customized by a bunch of old fogies. Unfortunately, it seems there's getting to be fewer and fewer new OE options in terms of vehicles to customize.  

Yes a lot of Van guys do, as long as they are the panel version    

I think so many people "dog" on vans because the younger guys only see the "old school" vans and not what some of the newer customs are or can become. I think one of the biggest issues to deal with in customizing a van today is finding parts. The aftermarket companies make little, if any, bolt on items for vans. We have to make anything we want to do. Take my van for instance... a 2000 E350 4x4 Dually



The 4x4 and Dually was done by "Quigley 4x4" www.quigley4x4.com  the doors are all steel, made by me, it's taken some time, but with lots of figuring I have some unique doors. Nobody can sell you something to bolt on like this





You also hit the nail on the head with vans to customize. there are 2 full size vans left, then the Sprinter, and the foreign mid and mini-vans. Everything else is older. We sometimes feel like we are being left behind with auto manufacturers, but they are in the business of making money and if it doesn't sell it goes.  

Holy cow! That's one big-@$$ door! The dualie rear end is pretty trick, too. Speaking of parts, how many parts interchange with the full-size trucks? I know some do, but I'm sure there are a lot of unique van parts. Have you found any good suppliers that carry some hard-to-find van parts?  

Nope, to far for me to drive.  My van is as clean underneath as it is everywhere else and to drive it that far would wreak havoc with all the custom work. Also since I am 100% disabled it keeps me form driving long distances unless I do it in short segments which means it would take me a week or more to drive there for a few days and then back on the road for a week. My knees and back couldn't take that. The gets 4 miles per gallon so if I were to drive it it would cost me a fortune which I don't have since I live on social security and my veterans benefits.  
Mike Cook
Vice President
Inland Vans Berdoo
2008 Route 66 Hall of Fame Inductee

I personally don't even drive a truck, but I can appreciate the workmanship and originality in the custom trucks I see.

Not that it matters but what do you drive?

For what ever reason it seems like the younger crowd that works for the top mags out there right now get a kick out of dogging vans.Its really unforunate because vanning was born on the West Coast .There were some outstanding vans built out there.there are a couple of truck events out there you guys cover that started out as VAN events.Sorry I can't pull there names off the top of my head right now.

Mike times are changing out here in the Mid West and the East Coast.Trailering a van to an event used to be Taboo.There are a few of the top show vans out here now that do get trailerd to events.I remeber back to the 11th nationals held at the same place the 35th was held at and a bunch of vanners were giving this guy a hard time because he trailered this van to the event



To me its a good sighn it shows that there are a few vamnners out there that have enough disposable income to invest in a show van and a "Mule" to pull the van and the trailer to events........



There are even a few vanners building some serious "Hot Rod" vans that just do not take well to long road trips........

...........Wookee  


its a "Van Thing" a life style you have to live to understand

esanchez:
Holy cow! That's one big-@$$ door! The dualie rear end is pretty trick, too. Speaking of parts, how many parts interchange with the full-size trucks? I know some do, but I'm sure there are a lot of unique van parts. Have you found any good suppliers that carry some hard-to-find van parts?

Yeah, it is and it's heavy too. 225 pounds worth. Had to fabricate everything myself. I would have liked it to go a bit higher, but with the curvature of the side of the van the door hits the underside of the driprail if it goes any higher. I needed to keep the door under the rail to keep water from running inside in the rain.

As far as I know there are almost no parts from trucks that fit the vans. Even the 7.3 diesel and the V8 gas engine add on accessories are different. I've been told by most every compture performance company (Like Banks and Bullydog) that even the plug in programmers are different.  

Wow, that little "shorty" van is wild! Love those wheelie wheels on the back. Gotta appreciate the passion and creativity the van guys put into their rides.    

Doesn't seem like it would be too hard to make an HHR panel. Either fill in the rear windows, shave the rear handles, or just buy whole rear doors from GM, and just fill in the the rear side windows. Granted, it'd be a heck of a lot easier to just buy the panel to start with, but if Chevy doesn't do an SS panel, I see a lot of guys doing it. My prediction is possibly '09 for an SS panel.  

If I were to get one, I would buy the panel version, de badge it and srop a Vette drivetrain in it. Of coarse I would have to win the lottery first.    

Sorry to get back to the original question.

Cross-overs the new van? No way!

Of course this is my opinion. The "real answer" generally accepted by vanners is provided by the Council of councils. I'd like to explain how it works but it's a little bit complicated so to avoid saying anything wrong, check out this link to "WHAT IS THE COUNCIL OF COUNCIL'S" Anyways, every year, at a conference, they determine what is a van from what is submitted by vanners for arbitration.

I think, that the general phylosophy is returning to the original well known van.

Mike, I know you have a very specific opinion of what is a van and what is not. But you gotta admit, it's not a "these are the rules" type of decision. You have stated a few exceptions to some of the rules like unibody/truck frame, sliding doors, etc... Car/truck makers are also making the line harder to draw because... well that's exactly what they're doing with cross-overs: a mix of two.

BTW Mike, I think the Mazda 5 was ruled as not being a van.

I have my own personnal guide-lines as to what is a van:
- Has a removable dog-house inside the vehicle.
- Is boxy.
- Available with sliding door.
- You can sleep comfortably 2 people inside.

But once again, I'm sure you could find exceptions to my personnal rules.

Oh, and I prefer a van with no windows (even though mine has too many) as many other vanners feel the same way.  
----- Mathieu -----

"Electric Avenue", my '79 Ford.